The 2000s started with one sitcom house door closing and one other one opening.
Friends was iconic in its heyday and remains to be fairly well-liked. How I Met Your Mother aimed to take its place within the hearts of individuals watching tv throughout the nation.
Whereas totally different in premise, each reveals had been very talked-about and sometimes in contrast. Our TV Fanatics Sarah Little and Leora Waltuch sat down to debate which of the 2 was the superior sitcom.
Leora: Why do you assume How I Met Your Mom is best than Buddies?
Sarah: How I Met Your Mom, general, informed a greater series-long story than Buddies. From starting to finish, you knew that the endpoint was all about discovering out who the mom was, and the journey that the present took us on was unimaginable.
There have been hilarious moments, and heartbreaking ones, too. How I Met Your Mom completely juggled the humorous with the unhappy. Whereas there have been humorous jokes and working gags, there have been additionally lots of life classes that could possibly be taken away from lots of the episodes.
Leora: You say it was higher from begin to end, however one of the controversial ends of a sequence in TV historical past is HIMYM. Personally, I truly appreciated the top and thought it labored, however that was not the bulk opinion, which has to depend for one thing.
Buddies by no means pretended to be any kind of than what it was; a present about Buddies. Buddies was consolation meals. It was a couple of time in your life when your mates are your loved ones, and we felt like all six of them had been household to us. They had been welcome in our houses.
HIMYM was based mostly round a love story that half of the viewers stopped rooting for a number of seasons in. Robin/Ted followers misplaced religion after How I Met Your Mother Season 1 Episode 1, and Ted/Tracy followers felt betrayed.
Is not a narrative about friendship and the way it endures a stronger message than a narrative about love misplaced and unrequited?
And sure, HIMYM toed the road between humorous and unhappy, nevertheless it additionally gave us some plotlines that had been actually exhausting to swallow, and I do not know that I wish to be taking life classes from folks as broken as a lot of the most important characters.
I might similar to so as to add, whereas How I Met Your Mom was unique and did make strides within the style, it additionally constructed on tropes and dynamic that Buddies created and made iconic.
Some imagine that HIMYM is only a Buddies rip-off, which I feel is an enormous stretch, however you possibly can’t say it wasn’t influenced by the present and did not attempt to mimic sure issues with the intention to construct on its success.
Sarah: Whereas I do not disagree that sequence finale of How I Met Your Mom was a letdown, that does not take away the greatness of each different episode earlier than that. 200 and 6 out of 208 isn’t dangerous.
If I am being trustworthy, I ignore the sequence finale as canon altogether as a result of that was not was the sequence was about. The sequence was by no means about Ted and Robin or Ted and the Mom, it was concerning the 5 associates, life and the great thing about it, and heartache.
So I strongly disagree that How I Met Your Mom was a narrative about love misplaced and unrequited, it was at all times concerning the relationship between Ted, Robin, Marshall, Lily, and Barney. And sure, the characters are broken, however that is what makes them relatable.
HIMYM took what made Buddies nice and made it better, for my part.
Or ought to I say, legendary?
Leora: The premise of the present, as informed to the viewers, was how Ted discovered love with the mom of his youngsters. The writers meant it to be the story of a person transferring on from shedding his spouse by reuniting along with his past love.
Love was on the heart of the entire thing. You may’t say that the present wasn’t about that.
Ted was the protagonist, and we watched his journey to seek out love. That is what drove the story.
The friendships mattered, however not in the identical method they did in Buddies, which was extra about friendship than romantic love. Although Buddies did have some nice ships.
When it aired, everyone was rooting for Ross and Rachel to finish up collectively, and the present delivered on that. In the meantime, Monica and Chandler had been a shock love story that was wholesome and real.
Marshall and Lily weren’t dangerous, however they did not have all of the issues Monica and Chandler had going for them. And a lot of the different relationships in HIMYM had been exhausting to ship.
Barney and Robin had been plain poisonous (and for some motive, wildly well-liked).
Talking of, let’s discuss Barney.
He might have been a tragic determine who suffered fairly a bit, however he was additionally sociopathic and manipulative.
He was horrible to girls, and whereas he was a loyal and loving pal, Robin, Ted, and Lily all grew to become corrupted and fewer tolerable, the longer they had been associates with him, particularly Robin. Not a lot Marshal.
And whereas I will agree that being a bit broken does make an individual extra relatable.
A) What I stated was in response to what you stated about taking life classes
B) That is not normally what individuals are searching for in a sitcom. The buddies of Buddies had been relatable sufficient with out turning into unlikable characters of their former selves (I am you, Scherbatsky).
Sarah: That’s true, it was all about how Ted met the mom of his future youngsters. However I imagine it morphed into one thing extra because the seasons went on, and the present was all the higher for it.
Sure, the series-long thriller concerning the mom was implausible, however so was the story concerning the 5 associates.
Why cannot or not it’s each?
However you’re proper, on the finish of the day it was about love, nevertheless it was the totally different sorts of affection, from familial to romantic and every little thing in-between.
Buddies was nice at portraying friendships, nevertheless it wasn’t as robust at portraying different relationships (apart from Monica and Chandler, after all). However, it was a present known as “Buddies” in spite of everything.
I disagree. Marshall and Lily and Barney and Robin had been nice love tales, particularly Marshall and Lily.
Barney was horrible to girls, however so was Joey and Ross and generally Chandler. Let’s face it, each these reveals had extremely problematic parts to them.
And I do not agree with the assertion that Barney corrupted them, they had been all their very own characters, and all made their very own decisions. All of them went by means of their very own arcs, and I really feel like all of them stayed fairly likable till the very finish.
Leora: I by no means stated Marshall and Lily weren’t an amazing love story. They had been. However they weren’t as nice as Monica and Chandler.
I feel we did not see them as a lot as their very own folks as a result of they had been already in a relationship when the present began. We noticed Monica and Chandler particular person of one another, we noticed their friendship, and we noticed their relationship bloom in a method that was so pure even supposing the writers by no means meant to go down that street.
As for Barney and Robin, I am sorry, however I simply cannot see them as an amazing love story.
Truly, I take that again. For as soon as in my life, I am not sorry. They had been horrible for one another.
They labored very well as associates, however as soon as they go collectively, they introduced out one another’s worst qualities. They had been each working away from relationships and dedication, and as a substitute of addressing that, they mixed their points into one mismatched relationship.
They did not work in any respect the primary time they obtained collectively, and so they did not final lengthy both time. The writers knew that they weren’t a narrative meant to final, merely one which wanted to be informed to get to the marriage and the mom and to maintain Robin off the market and away from Ted.
Honestly, at that time in her life, Robin wasn’t in a spot to be in a relationship with anybody. She wished to be unbiased, she did not need youngsters or to calm down.
Ted wished these issues and Barney, and whereas he pretended in any other case, wished them too. He’d had such a tousled childhood, and he simply wished to be liked and have a household, however he was afraid to need it.
I feel it was clear that he wished a extra conventional life because the present went on and developed his character, and that by no means would have labored for Robin.
She might have “enjoyable” relationships, however a wholesome, lasting, secure relationship wasn’t one thing she was prepared for till she “lived her life.”
I appreciated Barney falling for Robin and discovering that he might love that method, nevertheless it by no means made sense for Robin to return his emotions. She opened him as much as love, however he might have shared that love with Nora, who wished what he wished and even Quinn, who was a superb match for him and by no means expressed not wanting a household.
As a substitute, he went again to somebody who he stated he liked as a result of she was “nearly as screwed up as I’m,” and who he not solely consistently lied to however who when she requested him to not misinform her anymore, his response was, “You don’t need me to misinform you? Lies are the explanation that we’re collectively.”
He might have turned it right into a grand romantic speech ultimately, however how is a relationship that knowingly bases itself on lies remotely wholesome?
And sure, Joey wasn’t nice to girl, neither was Ross, and even Chandler, however they had been dangerous in a flawed human method.
There’s a distinction between being a flawed human an a sociopath. None of them got down to damage and manipulate in the best way that Barney did. He was extremely poisonous, and the best way the present tries to normalize it as a result of he is an effective pal is a bit sick.
There’s additionally the timing to contemplate. When Buddies got here out, the “good man” trope wasn’t a factor that was being known as out but. Quite a lot of the un-PC issues Buddies did they did earlier than it wasn’t PC.
How I Met Your Mom got here later and may have identified higher, nevertheless it was extra offensive and crude than Buddies ever was.
Persons are largely okay with Joey’s habits, which is written off as being idiotic greater than the rest. And sure, he’s a participant, however whereas he is with a lady, he is normally fairly candy to her. He is the charming, not too vivid actor who is kind of what he sells himself as.
He did not create a e book with 1,000,000 methods to deceive girls and trick them into mattress. He does not have an answering machine that randomly calls ladies and tells them he noticed them, and they’re fated to be collectively. He does not have a mattress that magically sends ladies who will not depart to who is aware of the place.
Sarah: I truly would argue that Marshall and Lily had been higher than Monica and Chandler. We obtained to see Marshall and Lily collectively longer as they obtained engaged within the very first episode.
However, we additionally obtained to see the development of how they obtained to that time by means of flashbacks, which had been at all times epic by the best way. I really feel like we type of obtained all of it with them. However, Monica and Chandler are additionally superb.
I utterly disagree, Barney and Robin consistently made the opposite one higher, even after they had been simply associates. They had been just about the identical particular person and fairly appropriate when you ask me.
After all, the primary time they obtained collectively, it was too quickly, and so they weren’t prepared for it. However as soon as they grew as people, they had been prepared for the intense dedication.
They had been sizzling messes to begin with, however I really like each of their particular person character arcs all through the present and the way they had been type of parallel with each other. Nobody particular person or one relationship is ideal, however they actually did love each other, and that is all that issues.
They did make Barney fairly the dirtbag for comedies sake, sure.
How I Met Your Mom premiered one yr after Buddies ended, I’d say the timing is not that off. Buddies was not that way back, and timing excuses nothing, for my part. Let’s simply agree that there have been problematic parts to each and depart it at that.
And I do know lots of people assume How I Met Your Mom was this tremendous crude present, however I do not imagine it was worse than every other sitcom. It was only a bit extra apparent about it.
Leora: Okay, we’re moving into shipper wars now, so let’s comply with disagree about Robin/Barney.
Transferring on from that, I agree with you about Barney’s character arc within the present. It was an amazing arc. However I am unable to say that I appreciated Robin’s.
I discovered her actually likable within the early seasons, however later she grew to become a type of a caricature of herself. She was annoying, and her backstory was unrealistic, the extra we discovered about it.
I might purchase the daddy who wished a boy and actually raised her as one, forcing her to go within the wilderness on her birthday and survive, and many others. And I should buy the teenage pop-star with the boyfriend’s who handled her so horribly. However each of these are fairly outrageous, so for them to come back collectively like that … it was type of exhausting to swallow.
And so they stored attempting to make her increasingly outrageous for the sake of the snort. To start with, she was this formidable journalist from Canada who wasn’t searching for a critical relationship.
Because the present progressed, they drove every little thing to the acute, from her tom-boy tendencies to her Canadian roots, which they had been at all times making enjoyable of. As a Canadaphile, I take offense to that.
Ted additionally went from a romantic if considerably naive character to a personality that almost each fan discovered annoying. He is been known as pretentious and accused of being a “good man.” Plus, generally, he was type of a stalker. And he was purported to be the lead.
Marshall was likable all through the present’s run. he was just about the one character I appreciated from begin to end. However after some time, even the actor complained of being caught in a job with no nice character improvement left to him and wished to depart the present.
To your earlier level about it being a present about 5 associates, sure, it was that, nevertheless it was additionally about how these associates and other people, normally, might be tremendous shut at one level after which fall out of your life. They misplaced contact with lots of people, and so they misplaced contact with Robin for a very long time.
I am not saying the message is strictly inaccurate to the true world, nevertheless it is not the nice and cozy hug that Buddies was. You do not watch a sitcom to study the tough realities of the world, corresponding to that whomever your mates are actually, you may in all probability develop aside in some unspecified time in the future and will not even know what’s going on of their lives.
Sarah: I imply, it is a sitcom. Quite a lot of plot strains and character tales are created for the sake of comedy, and Robin’s backstory labored to attain that aim.
There have been outrageous storylines on Buddies too, notably Phoebe’s life, particularly how she mugged Ross. Or that Ross and Monica had been truly one another’s first kiss.
However they’re sitcoms, and so they create outlandish situations to be humorous.
I personally liked Ted from starting to finish, even when he obtained determined for love at instances. And you may say the identical issues that you just stated about Ted about Ross.
To be trustworthy, I do not anticipate sitcoms to be rainbows and butterflies on a regular basis, Buddies was positively not at instances. I need there to be laughter, emotion, relatability, and all of the issues I search for in tv reveals.
Escapism is certainly a part that goes into watching tv, nevertheless it’s additionally about discovering characters and tales that you would be able to relate to.
After all, you possibly can’t relate to a particular state of affairs Ted goes by means of in a single episode, however you possibly can relate to his emotions. And that is what I really like about How I Met Your Mom as a result of it had all of it.
Leora: Honest sufficient.
I feel the details right here, placing delivery and character likability apart, is that each had been sitcoms of an identical breed. How I Met Your Mom constructed off Buddies, and you’ll say it made it higher, or you possibly can say it stole what was there. It depends upon the way you wish to have a look at it.
I really feel like Buddies went simply far sufficient with the jokes and the outrageousness, the place How I Met Your Mom went possibly a bit too far at instances. However on the finish of the day, with a sitcom, it is about what makes you snort and makes you’re feeling good.
It is about what makes you retain watching, shopping for DVDs, paying for overpriced streaming providers to look at one thing you’ve got seen a thousand instances.
I truly loved each reveals, however personally, if I might solely watch one in every of them ever once more, I’d choose Buddies.
I feel it actually offered one thing that was wanted, and it nonetheless does years later. I do not know if How I Met Your Mom will maintain up the identical method; solely time will inform.
Funnily sufficient, whereas they had been clearly attempting to be the subsequent Buddies, I’ve heard folks say that the present that was truly the subsequent Buddies in how a technology responded to it was The Large Bang Idea. And that is ironic as a result of the group in that present was dysfunctional and horrible associates to one another.
Nevertheless it’s the truth that the time period “the subsequent Buddies,” is a factor that makes my level. Buddies set the usual and are the usual, the gold customary as a sure CW couple would say. No person ever says, “this could possibly be the subsequent How I Met Your Mom.”
The Buddies method labored effectively sufficient to be mimicked, however after they tried to make a “How I Met Your Father” present, it by no means obtained the inexperienced gentle.
And I suppose, simply personally, I relate extra to a narrative about friendship with some love than a narrative about love with some friendship.
Monica and Chandler are the gold-standard couple as a result of they naturally developed from associates to greater than in a wholesome, relatable method.
Marshall and Lily, nice as they had been, had been at all times love-interests, even again after they met in faculty. It was contrived, and it got here off that method.
How I Met Your Mom teaches that love does not must make sense to make sense, however Buddies teaches that the perfect relationships are rooted in friendship and take lots of work.
Monica and Chandler by no means learn one another’s minds, and so they did not agree on every little thing the best way Lily and Marshal did, however they had been appropriate, they cared about one another, and so they put within the work to make their relationship occur.
Once more, love Lily and Marshal, however the relationship was attempting so exhausting to be extra in love than the gold customary that they left the realm of actuality behind, whereas Monica and Chandler are one of many few wholesome and reasonable relationships you see on tv.
And that is in a sticom!
I am moving into ships once more. Sorry.
However the level of Buddies was that true associates are at all times there for you, they are going to be your loved ones and your vital relationships. That is a superb message, and it makes you’re feeling good. I’d like to have a pal group like in associates.
Sarah: They positively are related, which is why that is such a sizzling subject between followers in all places! However I feel they’re very totally different in lots of methods.
The principle distinction is that How I Met Your Mom is nearly like a thriller present. Followers liked searching for clues and totally different hints as to who the mom was, and the reveal of her on How I Met Your Mother Season 8 Episode 24 was epic as a result of it was so sudden.
Plus, most sitcoms these days are mainly nearly a gaggle of associates and/or coworkers in any case, however we take pleasure in them individually nonetheless. I’d argue that Buddies was the “subsequent Cheers” or the subsequent “Golden Ladies.” There’s at all times going to be a present prior to a different that influenced it.
As for spin-offs, Joey did not try this effectively both. How I Met Your Mom confirmed lots of pressure between their group of associates, and I’d say that it additionally proved the significance of friendships and that they take lots of work. There was simply additionally the part of discovering your soulmate too.
Leora: So that you’re saying the present was concerning the thriller of the mom, however lots of people had been let down with how the mom’s plotline was dealt with. And once more, she was barely in it.
I imply, you possibly can go farther again with Buddies to Carl Jungs 12 archetypes. However I feel Buddies was very unique in how they put them collectively in an ensemble like that and had them mesh with one another. Buddies outlined the modern-day sitcom, and reveals had been at all times attempting to imitate it.
And has anybody truly stated that Buddies was the subsequent something?
Sarah: I’d argue that the Mom was in it all through the entire sequence run, not less than, her spirit was. The top aim was at all times about how Ted met Tracy. So as soon as he met her, finish of present.
And that’s what occurred.
Fortunately we had been ready to determine who she was and see a few of her backstory on How I Met Your Mother Season 9, which actually helped to construct her character. However I feel folks had been extra disillusioned along with her dying than with how the present dealt with her general story.
They did an amazing job of planting seeds and increase the thriller of who she was, and that’s a part of why the present was so pleasant and is what set it other than Buddies.
I am certain again when Buddies first premiered, individuals who had been die-hard Cheers followers thought it was a rip-off. I am not saying it was, I am simply saying you would in all probability make that argument about something.
There isn’t any denying that Buddies was an epic present that has caught with lots of people, and I imagine that How I Met Your Mom deserves that very same legacy. It lasted 9 seasons, and lots of people nonetheless find it irresistible as effectively.
Leora: Properly reasoned.
I did like Tracy, and whereas her dying was unhappy, the type of dropped hints alongside the best way, and the present truly made extra sense whenever you reveal that the mom was useless the entire time.
It wasn’t a nasty present, and I did take pleasure in it, although I’d by no means wish to know any of these folks or be associates with them in actual life.
I feel the place Buddies began out okay and obtained steadily higher till it was one thing you could not cease watching, How I Met Your Mom had some actually weak seasons, particularly afterward because the characters grew to become much less likable and fewer relatable.
Each had been good for what they had been, however I desire one to the opposite as a result of it is extra consistent with what I like. It is hilarious, however not excessive, it is a stage of mature, however not crude, sure issues are performed for jokes, nevertheless it has the appropriate stability of humor and realism for a half-hour sitcom.
I suppose my argument is not a lot that How I Met Your Mom is dangerous, a lot as it’s that Buddies is higher. It was nonetheless pretty much as good by the top because it was at first. Extra so. And we might have been glad to have it proceed, although it is good they ended on a excessive observe.
Persons are nonetheless clamoring for a revival to occur. They’re at all times making these faux trailer on youTube.
And it was an enormous deal when Matthey Perry guest-starred on Courtney Cox’s present and proposed to her.
We nonetheless need extra Buddies, and the ending left us with a superb style in our mouth. Like ice-cream, you possibly can by no means have an excessive amount of.
Sarah: Not even Marshall? Come on, you already know you’ll wish to be associates with Large Fudge!
That apart, I feel Buddies had a few weak seasons as effectively, I am unable to even watch most of Friends Season 3.
And Buddies Season 10 was missing in some departments.
However I feel that could possibly be stated about any present that goes on for that lengthy. It will probably come right down to a matter of style with the Buddies vs. How I Met Your Mom argument, and for some motive, How I Met Your Mom has caught with me extra.
I do love Buddies, I simply imagine that How I Met Your Mom was funnier and extra intelligent with the way it dealt with its storylines. I additionally love the way it dealt with the topic of dying and life normally. It was the right stability for me.
I feel Buddies ended the place it wanted to as a result of I really feel like, after a sure variety of seasons, a present overstays its welcome. A one-off reunion episode of Buddies can be superb, as would a re-imagining of the sequence finale of How I Met Your Mom.
Each reveals had been superb general, with a number of dangerous elements to them, as is the case with the vast majority of tv reveals. I do imagine that How I Met Your Mom was a extra fascinating present, although.
Leora: I will provide the dying factor. Marshal’s father’s passing was well-handled. It was one in every of their higher arcs, and Buddies by no means actually did something like that.
Most of their emotional episodes had been relationship associated, like break-ups. Although there was Phoebe having to surrender the twins. And I at all times get emotional once I consider the scene the place Chandler tells Monica that they could by no means be capable to conceive.
I really like season three of Buddies! Friends Season 3 Episode 2: The One The place No One’s Prepared! Chandler and Janice! Joey and Kate! And as unhappy as “We Had been On A Break” is, it was a fairly epic episode.
I do not assume How I Met Your Mom wants its finale to be re-imagined as a result of that was what it was working in the direction of all alongside. It was intelligent writing, however a lot of the viewers did not prefer it, which type of goes again to what I stated firstly.
The present does not make sense with out the finale, however the viewers wished a distinct ending. It is like when you say you’re keen on Harry Potter, however you assume that Voldemort actually ought to have received.
The truth that the purpose of the present was unpalatable to the viewers says one thing. I am undecided what, nevertheless it says one thing.
That being stated, sure, it comes right down to what you want. We each like each reveals and each desire totally different ones. Neither shall sway the opposite, so allow us to half as associates and depart it to the fanbase to vote.
Sarah: See, I disagree concerning the finale, despite the fact that that in all probability hurts my argument. The finale was not what the present was about, and lots of people agree. That’s the solely a part of How I Met Your Mom that I dislike as a result of it did not make sense to me.
However lots of issues did not make sense to me on Buddies — Rachel and Joey anybody? Fats Monica?
Each reveals had their hiccups, however there is not any denying the affect they each made.
Sure, we will let the followers vote!
Leora W is a workers author for TV Fanatic..