‘Hacks’ Star and Boss Paul W. Downs Reveals Emotional Jimmy-Ava Scene That Didn’t Make the Final Cut

Hacks may be over, but there are still treats to be uncovered as star and co-creator Paul W. Downs reflects on his journey as Jimmy LuSaque Jr., manager to Deborah Vance (Jean Smart) and Ava Daniels (Hannah Einbinder). Warning: Spoilers for the Hacks series finale ahead!

As Deborah helped launch The Diva Casino and set up her friends and family for success, her initial choice to take a trip with Ava before resorting to assisted suicide after being diagnosed with cancer was certainly a shock for viewers and Ava. Jimmy was the one who had to remain strong as he made the argument that Deborah should be supported in her choice, despite his and Ava’s wishes.

All the while, Jimmy had willingly taken a bad position at Latitude as his venture with Kayla (Megan Stalter) and Randi (Robby Hoffman) dried up funds-wise. Still, his new gig in the mail room was used to its full potential as he observed shady ways Michael (Earl Brown) was gaining extra cash by selling clients’ rights to AI companies.

Threatening to expose Michael during Latitude’s work retreat, the head of the company handed the reins to his daughter and Jimmy, allowing for a new chapter in the business’s history. Below, Downs discusses Jimmy’s ending, the emotional Jimmy-Ava moment that didn’t make the final cut, and where he stands when it comes to the show’s future in a movie or spinoff.

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The finale made way for Jimmy’s ascension at Latitude. Was it always the plan that he’d have the keys to the castle in the end?

Paul W. Downs: When we pitched the show, that wasn’t where we were setting out to go, but it just felt really right to bring Jimmy and Kayla full circle, have them assume the throne in this company that their fathers started. It really was only in this season that we figured out he would be in the mailroom and then have access to these AI sales that Michael was doing, so that was broken this season. So, while we always thought about them getting there, a lot of it was worked out this season. There was a moment where we were like, is there something around Kayla inheriting it from Michael, and then Jimmy and Kayla were married on paper because the pickleball club they needed to join with a discount? There were a lot of different theories about how we would get there, but we did ultimately know we wanted them sitting at their old desks.

What was so rewarding about sitting in that desk at the end of the finale and knowing Jimmy had reached the spot he’d wanted for so long? 

I think because he is the son of one of the founders of the company, they really like to rag on him and give him a hard time, and he doesn’t fit into this alpha male, film bro culture that exists there, so it was so nice, as Jimmy, to sit back in that chair and be the leader of what will be a whole new version of Latitude. My very first scene on the show, we meet Jimmy in that office at that desk with Ava, when she wants to throw herself out the window, with Kayla at her desk… So it was such a heartwarming full circle moment.

Jimmy knew about Deborah’s illness and plan to explore assisted suicide. Why was it important for him to have that privileged information before Ava?

On one hand, I think we needed somebody to comfort Ava, to say our whole goal in life is to enjoy the time we have while we’re here together. And so I think in order to be able to impart that wisdom, we felt like it would be better that he wasn’t learning the information, but he was able to have sat with it, and it also felt very true to life. We thought that Deborah would have had to get a lot of ducks in a row and get her affairs in order if she were going to do something like this. And of course, Ava would be someone who would be all about choosing to live and potentially end your life with dignity if you were ill or suffering, but obviously it’s so hard to do if you love someone.

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It’s like one thing to say that theoretically, but then in practice, when someone you love is making a decision, it’s so hard. So it was also nice, I think, to have someone like Jimmy also be able to advocate as Deborah does for [her choice]. It just feels like a very Hacks thing to explore a concept like that, [where] there are so many intergenerational disagreements. There’s so much debate and learning that happens between Deborah and Ava, but ultimately, to make it about life and death, and what is worth living for, just felt like where we had to get to.

What does it mean to Jimmy to see Ava’s success as she films her pilot for Who’s Making Dinner? in the episode’s opening moments? 

It’s so satisfying, you know, Deborah’s a client that he inherited from his dad, and Ava is somebody in our minds that he spotted really young. He loved her Twitter feed, followed her, he went to some of the stage stuff that she was writing for before she got her first job, and then she got a deal for Jimmy. Before the series, this is a discovery, an emerging artist, a writer who’s so good, and then obviously she got into some trouble for that tweet about that senator, but he thought of this thing to put her together with Deborah, this client that he had inherited, and so I think for him, when his clients win, he feels like he’s won. Being able to make that pilot and get to the place she’s gotten to and learn so much from Deborah, the value of hard work and how to craft a punchline, I think, is so gratifying for him, and not just because he needs it financially, but because he believes in her talent and he always has.

Well, Jimmy did introduce Deborah and Ava. Ultimately, their friendship wouldn’t exist at all without him.

Really — here’s an exclusive just for you — in that last scene when Jimmy says, “I think you might have saved her life once, so it makes sense you do it again.” Hannah improvised, “Thanks for putting us together.”

That’s wild!

And it was so sweet. I’m like getting emotional talking about it [Tears up]. It was like such a sweet thing to improvise, but it was also like… we can’t do that… It made it about Jimmy in these final moments, which it should be about Deborah and Ava, but it was such a sweet thing for her to improvise. Obviously, it’s making me misty now. It made me so moved on the day when she did it.

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Well, Hannah must feel similarly about being part of the show itself. On the flip side, Jimmy considers Bob’s (Tony Goldwyn) offer to distribute his Fatty Arbuckle flick. Why is he so willing to let go of their past, which involved Jimmy getting into a physical altercation with the exec?

One of the things that we feel is actually very true to life [and] the industry is that it doesn’t really matter; it is about the work, even for an executive who might have an ax to grind or might have a personal vendetta. If the work is good enough, it doesn’t matter. And so we kind of wanted to do that thing that we’ve heard from writers and actors who [have said] that there were people who were really vocal and made real enemies of people at the studios because they spoke out against, and then if they had a great script or were in a great movie, it didn’t matter. It’s OK because at the end of the day, we’re all trying to make something, and so we wanted to have that moment with Bob Lipka just to signal to the audience the war is over.

Jimmy and Kayla are going to be able to move through the world without having to deal with the blacklisting, but also it just feels very like what happens, like if that movie was good. He’d be like, all right, this kid knocked my phone out of my hand, and wrestled me to the ground, but whatever, it’s a good movie, we can make some money on it, and yes, he’s more bottom line driven.

Speaking of the importance of good work, Jimmy and Kayla put an emphasis on wanting to tell good stories as the leaders of Latitude. Why did you want to make that the message for Jimmy and Kayla’s reign at the company? 

Well, it’s really how we feel: that stories are so important and uplifting. Stories are so important. I mean… that’s why we thank you for what you do. It’s helping people find these shows, especially now, when people, I think, need comedy more than ever. I really do feel like it is very meta in that way that Jimmy and Kayla’s philosophy about the company doing good work and helping to make great work is our philosophy, Jen [Statsky], Lucia [Aniello], and mine.

So yeah, that was an important thing. As much as it’s a satire and there are moments that we can be a little bit cynical about the industry, I hope that audiences feel our fandom, our love of the industry, our love of the craft. Hopefully it feels like an optimistic view because I think there are plenty of shows that can be sour or negative, and while there is like big emotion in our show, I hope our love for the industry and our gratitude for being able to work in it shines through.

Where do you stand when it comes to exploring Hacks in a future film or spinoff, particularly when it comes to Jimmy and Kayla at Latitude? 

I think we wanted to get them to this point. We pitched what happens in the last episode from the beginning, so it felt like the end, and you always want to go out leaving people wanting more and so I’m really torn because part of me is like that’s it, every story has to end, and yet I love these people so much and I’m grieving them so much, I would work with any of them in a heartbeat. We knew where we were going, and we’ve gotten there, and we’ve always said it would be such a different show after this because to get to where we get with Jimmy and Kayla and with Deborah and Ava, recognizing how much they care for each other and need each other… it’s like, where do you go from there? But you know, I think we could crack anything, and so, I would definitely be open to it. For now, it does feel very complete in a way that we can feel very good about.

Hacks, Seasons 1-5, Streaming now, HBO Max